Stopping the Sin

The Great Dilemma in the Present Day Church is at WHAT Point does the sin have to Stop in order for real Salvation to take place. Must it Stop Before Pardon can be granted or after, or does it NEVER Stop? Unanimously the Church Preaches that God ‘Saves you in your sins and Cleans you up later.’ BUT the actual Stopping of sin remains in question. If the Person Cannot of his own power stop sinning when he comes to God, WHY is he STILL unable to Stop After Salvation has supposedly taken place? Since Everyone will agree that NO ONE EVER Stops sinning.

Any Suggestion that the Person can indeed Stop the evil of his doings BEFORE Pardon can be granted is Automatically equivalent to ‘Saving yourself’ and no longer Needing Jesus. Therefore Repentance is a Confession that you are a sinner, unable to prepare yourself and call upon God and you merely come to Him DOING NOTHING but Seeking His forgiveness and Mercy as the Remedy for your sin. The reason for this is that you are Born a Sinner, morally depraved by nature, unable within yourself to do anything leading to your salvation. Until God by His Grace liberates your free will in order for you to Repent and Believe. Therefore Christ doesn’t have anything to do necessarily with you Stopping any particular sin at initial conversion, only Providing His Remedy for your ‘Sinfulness’ in order for you to be forgiven and have your moral imperfections Covered by His Blood.

Here is the Doctrinal Statement of Wesleyan Theology:

We believe that man's creation in Godlikeness included ability to choose
between right and wrong, and that thus he was made morally responsible; that
through the fall of Adam he became depraved so that he cannot now turn and
prepare himself by his own natural strength and works to faith and calling
upon God. But we also believe that the grace of God through Jesus Christ is
freely bestowed upon all men, enabling all who will to turn from sin to
righteousness, believe on Jesus Christ for pardon and cleansing from sin,
and follow good works pleasing and acceptable in His sight. We believe that
man, though in the possession of the experience of regeneration and entire
sanctification, may fall from grace and apostatize and, unless he repent of
his sin, be hopelessly and eternally lost.

The Major Problem with all of this, is that it is IN REVERSE of the SCRIPTURE! In the Bible Repentance CEARLY means a STOPPING of sin BEFORE Pardon can be Granted. Note the following:

Let the wicked forsake his way, And the unrighteous man his thoughts; Let him return to the LORD, And He will have mercy on him; And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon. Isa55:7

Now therefore, amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the LORD your God; then the

LORD will relent concerning the doom that He has pronounced against you. Jer26:13

A CLEARING of the Wrong Doing MUST take Place BEFORE God can abundantly pardon or relent from His Wrath. This follows throughout Scripture without exception. The Message of the Bible ASSUMES that man is FULLY CAPABLE of Obeying God and DOING what God has said to Do, namely Repent, STOP what your doing, and SEEK My Mercy! All the Prophets Preached in this Manner as did the Apostles in the Book of Acts. Again, Let’s See what the Bible has to Say:

Jonah 3:5-10

So the people of Nineveh believed God, proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them. Then word came to the king of Nineveh; and he arose from his throne and laid aside his robe, covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes. And he caused it to be proclaimed and published throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying,  Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water. But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands.  Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish?

Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it.”

Here is a Clear Cut Case of the Preaching of Repentance and the Manner in which the Mercy of God is Dispensed on the people. NO ONE assumed that their Stopping meant anything more than the POSSIBILITY of God sparing them from destruction. They DID NOT Need some Special Grace or even the Holy Spirit to Come in and reveal to them the evil of their Doings. They Knew ALREADY they were in the wrong by the VERY Fact Jonah came preaching to them to Repent. The Prophet told them the Consequences of their actions and gave them the way of escape through repentance.

This should settle all the arguments anyone may have about Repentance, but the church ignores it and CONTINUES to Preach COME IN YOUR SINS! They Insist that you Must have the Holy Spirit’s Presence to reveal the error of your ways, bestowed through some Special Operation of Grace BEFORE you can turn to God and Believe. And if you were able to STOP Sinning (as the people of Nineveh did) you would NOT Need Jesus because you could Save yourself. They just Can’t seem to Connect the Dots.

The Entire Fallacy of Coming in your sins is Based on being Born a Sinner. Therefore man is not responsible for his sin, but only Receiving Jesus as the remedy for it. Then as the Holy Spirit liberates his free will and reveals wrong doings to him he becomes responsible to forsake those things as a Christian. That’s why NO ONE Preaches against or about sin or sinful behavior in the church because it’s the Holy Spirits Job to clean the people up, not the preachers responsibility to point anything out. This Mission of the church is to compel people to ‘Receive’ Jesus, not Seek a Clearing of Wrong Doing. So Real Repentance NEVER takes place.

Why is sin Committed in the dark or covered by lies? The Bible Says that men love darkness rather than light because their Deeds are evil. (Jh3:20-21) They Know adultery is wrong, if they didn’t why lie to cover their tracts? The Holy Spirit doesn’t have to indwell them BEFORE they are aware these things are evil in the sight of God and must be abandon. That’s why the ONLY Way Real Conversion has any Possibility of taking place is through the preaching of Repentance and faith PROVEN BY DEEDS! Man ALREADY Knows he is Responsible for his sins, his own conscience either accuses or excuses him.

The PROBLEM is when the Church gets into the Mix and Convinces them they can be SAVED in spite of what they DO! Once a person buys into the Big Lie of being born a sinner they can no longer be conceived of the Possibility of stopping sinning. It is simply a foregone conclusion of the Message that you Come to God in your sins, therefore He cannot possibly hold you accountable for continuing in them since they were  NEVER your fault to begin with! Man’s Accountability begins and ends with ‘Receiving Jesus’ as his Remedy.  NO ONE is able to Say that the Sin has to STOP because they hold firmly to the Doctrine of Man Born into sin. No Matter how good they can make it sound or how much they can back it up with Scripture, the Bottom Line remains. You CANNOT Stop (or even have the possibility of stopping) UNTIL He saves you, fills you with His Spirit and Works the sin out of you by process.

Here’s a Perfect example of what I mean, Written by a Holiness Preacher who believes you can lose your salvation by sinning:

“He takes a work of salvation in the soul to cease from sin. God gives us that power when we are saved. Prior to getting saved, one is under conviction and will bring forth fruits meet (or fit) for repentance, meaning they will be trying to stop some things as much as they can, and discontinue going to places they know are wrong.”

Notice that is has an element of Truth to it and speaks of the Power of God, Conviction and Fruits. All Scriptural terms. It seems to fit into the Common Salvation experience people are having in the churches. But he is extremely Careful to point out and ‘strongly suggest’ that the person CANNOT STOP doing what is wrong until God comes in and helps him. (this is the common type answer from pastors)

Now using your own sense of reason and understanding, DOES THIS Match what happened in Nineveh? Were the People UNABLE to Stop the evil of their doings until God Saved them or Did they Do it BEFORE anything happened?

Did anyone in Nineveh ASSUME that their Stopping of sin meant they no longer needed God’s Mercy extended to them? Or Did they Obey the Command to Repent, Come before God, PRESUMING NOTHING, and Seeking His Mercy! Unless you’re Blind, the answer is obvious.

WHY then Does EVERYONE THINK it happens in REVERSE? It HAS TO BE because of the Presupposition that Man is Born a Sinner and CAN’T Stop Sinning! So back to our question:

“When Does the Sin have to Stop?”

Answer: “NEVER!”  

What This Means:

You asked: “If a person is a child molester does he have to stop molesting children in order to receive Jesus?”

My answer:  Absolutely not. A person does not need to stop anything, start anything, or do anything at all to have God or Jesus in their life.  It is just the opposite.  Rather than stopping molesting in order to receive Jesus, it is receiving Jesus in order to stop molesting.

To answer your question...  I think you can ask Jesus into your heart while still engaging in behavior that does not honor the love of Christ.

"Do we have to stop sinning to be loved by God?"  I think not.  I am always going to be sinning. 

So the answer is yes, a child molester can be forgiven without doing anything

The truth is, a person does not have to stop his sin

Being saved does not depend on a person stopping all willful sin. 

God does not expect us to stop sinning first, and then seek salvation

Second, God does expect us to stop sinning after we are saved. 

These Pastors were Honest about what they believe. Most try to conceal it behind a lot of fluff and make sound as though they are not in favor of sin. But there are no Exceptions. NONE of them will Say outright and plainly the Sin has to Stop. At best they may say you must be ‘Willing’ to stop, have a ‘Desire’ to stop, even ‘Hate’ the sin, but NEVER ACTUALLY Stop!

Think about it:
The Man Committing Adultery on his wife Seeks her forgiveness while still attached to the other woman!

The Thief is Granted forgiveness for his crime WITHOUT returning what he has Stolen!

The Liar is Granted Pardon for his lies Without telling the Truth!

And the Fornicator is Spirit Filled and Forgiven BEFORE he Returns to Chastity.

All this Because of the Fallacy that Man is Born a Sinner and the Delusion is so Strong that it’s inconceivable for Anyone in the Church System to Think Otherwise! They ALL Believe God has SAVED them IN THEIR SINS and that NO ONE EVER Stops Sinning. (including as you see, flagrant sins of the flesh) But the Real Human Tragedy of this entire Mess is that These People REALLY DO THINK they are going to heaven when they Die! And NOTHING you can Say to them or Show them in the Bible Can persuade them otherwise.

“He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” Rev22:11

When Does the SIn Stop?

Is there any sin you must stop doing to be Saved? ALL the Pastors say an emphatic NO! ONLY the Sin of ‘Unbelief’ will exclude you from the Kingdom of Heaven. Basically what is being taught today as Salvation according to the Gospel of Christ is you get Saved as a poor helpless sinner, filled with the Holy Spirit and then God will magically empower you to ‘begin’ overcoming your vile habits over a period of time. Consequently you get ‘saved in your sins’ and then you repent. That’s how the process supposedly works.

However this method has some Serious flaws. First of all, the Sin NEVER Stops. The so-called ‘Saved’ Person continues to Struggle with all the same sins he allegedly repented of at the start. He is still ‘WAITING’ on God to change his desires and take away the vile habits. The Pastors keep telling him he is Saved and filled with the Spirit

and that God will soon ‘empower’ him to overcome the sin. He should remain in his focus group and not worry about the things he has no ability to control. The Problem: His bondage keeps getting worse!

In his Study group he is told that according to the Bible he was born a wretched sinner, guilty of Adams transgression and is hopelessly in bondage to an ‘inbred’ Nature of Depravity. At best all he can expect to be in this World is the Chief of Sinners fully Wretched to the core. Although the Power of God is hypothetically Working to deliver him from his sin. Soon he will begin to Blame God for his constant faults and the lack of success in overcoming them. Since he has been told also that continuously admitting he is poor wretched sinner keeps him humble, he has no Clue that he is growing more and more callus in his Rebellion.

The Message is very Confusing and Contradictory. On one hand the Pastors are saying that a Saved person cannot be living in continual sin. But on the other they assure you that ‘some’ deeply engrained sins are difficult to root out. Although you certainly Remained Saved in the meantime, even if such a sin is as vile as Molestation. The Logical Conclusion: The Commission of sin (any sin) is between the Person and God and Clean up is on God’s timetable. The final outcome of Salvation is Secure in Christ so the person must continue to Trust that God is faithful no matter what happens in his flesh.

What is so Perplexing about their Message is Some of them teach that Repentance is a Fruit of Salvation. You Get Saved and then repent. But others (many others!) don’t even mention Repentance. It’s not even a Mandate for Salvation! Therefore the Biblical Process of Godly Sorrow working Repentance UNTO Salvation is null and void.

They either have it in Reverse or Not at all. Nonetheless EVERYONE teaches that its God’s Responsibility to Clean you up according to His schedule, hence the Professing Masses are Wallowing in their sin while they wait for some Divine guidance to miraculously straighten them out. Although it NEVER happens.

Why is God so limited in His Power that all He can do is Cover man’s sin and Pretend He can only see the Perfection of His Son? The Bible says that He has given us all things that Pertain to Life and Godliness and that we are Partakers of His Divine Nature in order to escape the Corruption that is in the world through lust! (2Pet1:3-4) It also States that we can do ALL THINGS through Christ who Strengthens us. (Phil4:13) And the Same Power that Raised Christ from the Dead is at Work in us! (Eph1:19-20) So What’s the Problem? WHY (under their message) do people remain wretched sinners forever in bondage to lust? Would God intentionally limit Himself in dealing with man? If it’s His Job to Clean man up, Why doesn’t it ever seem to happen?

The answer is very simple. It’s NOT His Job to change man’s Desires from evil to good! In Repentance you Cease to do Evil and Learn to do Good. (Isa1:16) You Forsake your evil ways and unrighteous thoughts. (Isa55:7) You lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted Word that is able to Save your soul! (Js1:21) The Clearing of Wrong Doing is your Part. Granting forgiveness is God’s. (2Cor7:10-11) Unless man gets Clear of his sin in Repentance, it will NEVER Stop. Think about it! People Stop their vile habits all the time. They break free of alcohol, drugs, various addictions. (Without God!) Man is perfectly capable of Doing what is Right. It may not be easy, but NO one can deny that it has been done.

But you MUST Understand, Stopping your sin (or addiction) DOES NOT automatically restore you to favor with anyone. It only PROVES that you are making a sincere & Diligent effort to Change. As in the case of Adultery. Abandoning the adulterous relationship will not automatically reconcile the broken marriage relationship. It only Proves your remorse and sorrow for causing the separation. The offended party must be motivated by the effort made to Freely Grant forgiveness and restore the relationship.

God has Granted Man the Grace of Repentance PROVEN by DEEDS, to Forgive his sins and Restore him to a Right and Clean Relationship, Washed & Purged by the Blood of Christ. Man is Free to Choose, which makes him responsible to Obey. (Josh24:15) We are Workers Together with God in the Process of Redemption. (2Cor6:1) The Pastors have fallen prey to a Deadly Error by insisting man must be Saved in his sins. Flee them if you Can!

Will You Repent!

“God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.” John3:16

Does this Single Passage Capsulate the Gospel Message? Will you then merely ‘Believe’, and Trust that you have eternal life? Did you know that the Bible also says that the ‘Devils Believe’ and tremble? (James2:19) Are you then willing to stake your eternal destiny on the testimony of what men have said about John3:16? Is it Really ‘Faith Alone’ that Saves the Soul? Many think so, but the Real question is: ‘DID JESUS THINK SO?’

Jesus said that NOT Everyone who says to Me Lord, Lord will Enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who DOES the Will of My Father in heaven! Matt7:21. Is Doing the Will of God merely ‘Believing’ in Jesus? Again, many will tell you so. But yet Christ Himself answered the question of who would be Saved in Luke13:24, He said: “STRIVE to enter the Narrow Gate, for Many, I say to you, will Seek to Enter and NOT be Able!”

Your Churches tell you ‘Seek and you shall find’ but that’s only a PART of this Message. If you fail to STRIVE

(that is put forth a strenuous effort in the face of all adversity) you Will NOT Enter. WHY? Because not only is the Gate Narrow it is also DIFFICULT and only a FEW will be able to find it. Matt7:14. No wonder the Apostle Peter proclaimed to the Saints that the ‘Righteous’ are Scarcely Saved!’ 1Pet4:18, or More Clearly: ‘Saved with GREAT Difficulty.’ It certainly appears that he understood the Gospel Message of His Lord in plain language.

Further is the aspect of ‘Repentance’, Preached as the Basic fundamental Message from the Start. When Jesus described those coming to Him at the Judgment, claiming good works done in His Name, He called them ‘Workers’ of Iniquity! (Matt7:22-23) They were Not among the FEW who had ‘Departed from Iniquity’ (2Tim2:19)

Under the God so loved the World Gospel, NO ONE is Departing from their Iniquity. In fact they are being taught the Very Opposite! That you come to Christ ‘in your sins’ He Receives you and Cleans you up later.

Is this REALLY what the Bible teaches? Are you Certain it’s Correct? Your Soul is hanging in the balance.

EVERYWHERE the Message of Repentance includes a Clearing of Wrong Doing BEFORE Pardon can be granted. (2Cor7:10-11) Surly this is an extremely Difficult concept for you to accept, having sit under the ‘Love’ Gospel for so long. But it’s TRUE none the less. John the Baptist and Christ Himself followed the Prophets and called for this kind of Repentance as the Single Condition to be Reconciled to God and enter the Kingdom. (Matt3:-10, Lk3:8)

Isaiah said: “Let the Wicked forsake his ways and the unrighteous man his thoughts. Let him RETURN to the Lord and He will have Mercy on him. For He will abundantly pardon.” Isa55:7

Hundreds of Passages could be sited proclaiming the exact Same Message of Repentance. So when the Lord compared His Message to that of the Prophets, He used Jonah as His example. (Luke11:29-32, Mt12:38-42)

Upon hearing the Repentance message of Jonah the people Nineveh STOPPED sinning, shut down their city and Cried out to the Lord, assuming Nothing. Real Repentance includes a Season of godly sorrow in which the Pennant person STOPS or gets Clear of their Wrong Doings! (It Does Not happen after Salvation)

That’s why 2Cor7:11 Concludes by saying, “In ALL these things you PROVED yourselves to be CLEAR in this matter!” (Meaning PURE as in Acts15:9) THEREFORE a Genuine Repentance unto Saving Faith is PROVEN by DEEDS, Just as the Bible Says! Acts26:18. It’s NOT Repeating words, Receiving anything or Trusting in a concept.

You have been LIED to! Your Eyes are Closed to the Truth! OPEN them and TURN while Mercy is still available.

“To Open their Eyes and to TURN them from Darkness to Light and from the Power of Satan to God, that they May receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are Sanctified by Faith in Me!”

You MUST Break your Conditioning!!! Come Out from among them. Depart from Iniquity and Seek His Mercy.

The Path will be Difficult and Narrow, every diversion under the sun will try to hinder your progress, including your own passions and desires. The Old man has to Die in Repentance…..DEAD TO SIN….(Rom6:4-6) The Body of Sin Done away with so that you are NO LONGER a Slave to Sin! You Come out of Repentance a NEW Creation in Christ. (2Cor5:17) Not Still addicted to it in need of ‘Christian Counseling’. You were NOT Born a Sinner!

(You became addicted to sin by long practiced habit. Eph2:1-3)

The Love Gospel has the Process Backward. You supposedly get Saved in your sins and God cleans you up later.

But admit it. DOES ANYONE Ever get Cleaned up? Many get worse, but None are released from their bondage.

They fall under the Deception that sin humbles them and learn to Love the Message that they are poor sinners saved by Grace. Soon the Conscience is Seared and the heart waxed cold. The Light in them is Darkness and how Great is that Darkness! DON’T let it happen to you! Repent Now, like the People of Nineveh and find His Mercy.

Bought with a Price!

[Notes for U-Tube Series]

For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s. 1Cor6:20

The Present Model of Redemption, Atonement, or Reconciliation:

Substitution (Jesus took our Penalty, Wrath of God poured out on Him, He Became Sin)

Moral Transfer of His Virtue & Righteousness, by Imputation

Pre-forgiveness of sins (Future Sins!)

Rewards System

Eternal Security or Perseverance of Saints. (No further condemnation for sinning)

The Early Saints Concept of Redemption derived from the Apostles:

Jesus Came to Destroy the Works of the Devil

By His own Blood He Ransomed us from the Corruption influence of sin

As a Teacher of Righteousness He set the example for us to follow after

Both Faith and Repentance are Proven by Deeds & lead to a Reconciliation with God

Man possessed both Free Will and Ability to Obey and Do the Right thing

WHY the Difference? And WHO is Correct?

Let’s See what the Scriptures have to Say:

I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death. Hos13:14

For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many. Mark10:45

For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 1Tim2;5

Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. Acts20:28

Being Justified freely by His Grace through the Release by Ransom that is in Christ Jesus Rom3:24

You have sold yourselves for nothing, And you shall be redeemed without money. Isa52:3

What Does the Word: ‘Redemption’ Mean:

     Apolytrōsis: releasing effected by payment of ransom, redemption, deliverance, liberation procured by the payment of a ransom.   Translated: 9-Redemption, 1-Deliverance

Rom8:23, 1Cor1:30, Eph1:7, 14, 4:30, Col1:14, Heb9:14, 11:35

In the Ancient Greek Bible (Scriptures of 1^st Century) Called the Septuagint there was no Word for ‘Atonement’. Only ‘Reconciliation’ Also the use of the Word ‘Redemption’ was always associated with this PAYMENT of a Ransom!

(Just as ‘He became Sin’ in 2Cor5:21, was always translated as ‘Sin Offering’ or Offered himself for sin)

The MAJOR Differences are Glaring!

In the Penal Model of Substitution the Justice of God is the central focus of Redemption. God had to be Reconciled to Man by Punishing His Son in our Place. Man doesn’t change, God Does.

By Ransom Man is Released from the Bondage of Sin & Death and the Corruption of Lust. Man is reconciled to God through Repentance & Faith Proven by Deeds. He then follows the example of Christ

In the Penal Model Man is no longer subject to the Justice of God because Christ Obeyed in his place. The responsibility of keeping himself pure in heart is removed by a Moral Transfer of Christ’s virtue

Under Ransom Man Must DO the Right thing by Faith working by Love. The Penal Model was codified in the 16^th Century by the Reformers and Derived from a Series of theories developed in 10-11 Century Rome. NONE who followed the Apostles taught anything of the Sort! It is Absolute Heresy and effectively Destroys the Work of Redemption by Christ. If you are associated with a Substitution Model in your Ministry ABANDON it NOW and REPENT before it’s too late!

In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace Eph1:7

who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Eph 1:14

in whom we have redemption through His blood the forgiveness of sins. Col1:14

how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Heb9:14

and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, Rev1:5

who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Titus2:14

who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, Gal1:4